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Re: Panasonic problems
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02-10-2010 08:58 PM
Re: Panasonic problems
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02-16-2010 06:33 AM
Really? I could have sworn it has been confirmed to be a problem on about 30~40 individual sets on the market...a far cry from "all 11G/12G" sets.
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02-16-2010 11:11 AM
Runtime hours on my Z series? I've had it for about a year and a half, I watch and game on it a lot. The only thing I'm starting to notice is on the bottom right corner when I turn the TV on, I see these lit up green or blue pixels on a 8x4 inch area. It flickers for a bit then goes away within a minute. Only happens when I turn it on. Has anyone else's plasma done his?
"Come to the lightside, we have milk..."

Re: Panasonic problems
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02-16-2010 07:08 PM - last edited on 02-16-2010 07:24 PM
dobyblue wrote:
Really? I could have sworn it has been confirmed to be a problem on about 30~40 individual sets on the market...a far cry from "all 11G/12G" sets.
i hope you didnt take my statement literally, i was just quoting what d-nice (if you read avsforum then you probably know who he is) said. Of course it cannot be verified on everyones set since not everyone posses the data of what their output was initially, let alone the equipment to measure it. Additionally, a very small number of people have reported and verified that there sets are not experiencing fluctuating black levels or to an extent, if im not mistaken, have managed to correct the issue. Perhaps i maybe be oblivious to new info or some other tidbit buried in the thread (judging by your post) as i havent read past the first post as the issue does not really concern me as i dont own a panasonic.
[quote]
"What model lines are affected?"
There are measured reports for the X1, G10/15, and V10 linked to in the Thread Updates section above. The PX/PZ lines from 2008 also seem to be affected (see intro paragraph). D-Nice's Panasonic contacts suggested all consumer class 2008 and 2009 model lines are affected.
"Why might some suspect their units are NOT affected?
Obviously I can't say with any degree of certainty that every single unit is affected, but I can provide some reasons why it might not be noticeable to everyone. First you have to consider the environment. All these models have relatively poor anti-reflective/light-blocking filters, so any ambient light that hits the screen makes this issue very very difficult to notice. Obviously this describes pretty much everyone, very few people view displays in a totally blacked out room. Taking this one step further, to have a truly accurate recollection and perception of the MLL's, you would have to almost view the panel exclusively in this blacked out room as any washed out daytime or lit use could potentially bias ones impression. Lastly, you have to consider people's performance expectations. Post-elevation, these panels produce MLL's and CR's largely on par with mid-range CCFL LCD's from 2008 (e.g. Samsung A550/650/750/Etc). Most users and reviewers described these makes as having "Strong, Deep Blacks" and "High Contrast Ratio's", so it's understandable why some might not identify this as an issue."
[/quote]
Not really an issue for the average consumer, but for the enthusiast/internet/videophile crowd and or owner/buyer this is probably an issue. Not to mention that Katzmaier (cnet editor) went as far as to yank his editors choice from the V, if i remember correctly, because of this, as well as pointing out that he will no longer recommend panasonic to his family and friends who currently own panasonics.
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03-03-2010 01:22 PM
anyone heard anything new on this. i'm ready to pull the trigger on a 58 plasma this month but the two tops both have issues. i might endup going to a 60 lg. any news on the black levels?
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03-05-2010 10:14 AM
doesnt look like there have been any updates to the issue yet, according to the avs thread on rising panasonic black levels.
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03-07-2010 06:33 AM
The avs forum is absolutely notorious for intolerance to anything but absolute perfection. "If it ain't Pioneer, it's garbage" seems to be a common theme there, and let's face it; if you're satisfied with your tv's performance, you will not post about it there.
Having said that, Panasonic has gone on record as saying the voltage will adjust itself dependant on viewing hours, which may translate to lessening of black levels in the long run. The question is how much? If it can be measured with a spyder, but will not suffer in a viewing environment, who cares?
Before purchasing my G series Panny, I was looking for an LCD/LED tv and almost bought one. When shopping around I asked every sales rep what type of tv they owned, and without fail every single one stated they owned a plasma as a main set, with the majority owning Panasonic.
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03-16-2010 11:23 AM
You don't need a meter to detect the MLL increase. If you turn off the lights and watch a movie like Dark Knight it will be obvious (even my wife who is not a tech geek noticed the difference). When I first got the TV my black bars were pretty dark...they did not match the black boarder but they were still pretty good. Now I have to zoom content to fill the screen because the bars are now grey and are very distracting (adjusting brightness from 0-100 or anywhere in between makes no difference to this). My measured contrast after the first 200hrs was 4000:1 (actual contrast not the dynamic BS) and has dropped to 1800:1 in the first 1000hrs on my V10. This gives a noticeable washed out look to dark scenes and makes the image very flat. I also have a PZ80 & a PX80 from last year and they both currently have a better black level than my V10 but they also have low hrs and are susposed to also be affected by this so they may suck too after some more use. Initially image retention was almost non existent even after 4-5 hrs of straight gaming but now I get IR in mere seconds. If I paid $1500 for this set instead of $3500 I wouldn't care but my buddy picked up a Samsung LN40B540 LCD for $800 that has black levels as good as what I'm currently seeing on my V10. If you can get a S1 for cheap fine but don't spend big bucks on the 2009 Panasonic plasma. Also the 58's and 65's start at a lower MLL so if they double or triple it's not as noticeable as the smaller Panasonic plasmas that start out at a higher MLL. BTW Panasonic has no intention of fixing this issue and is sweeping it under the rug like Toyota tried to so unless these TV's start blowing up and killing people Panasonic will never fix it unless their sales take a dive.
spike4881 wrote:The avs forum is absolutely notorious for intolerance to anything but absolute perfection. "If it ain't Pioneer, it's garbage" seems to be a common theme there, and let's face it; if you're satisfied with your tv's performance, you will not post about it there.
Sorry buddy but you're wrong! A lot of us were posting calibration settings and calibration reports helping people get the best out of their TV's before any of this happened (I bet some of you are even using my settings) We wen't there complaining we were very happy about our TV's PQ until this started happening. There were many people like you saying we were too picky until the same BS happened to them at which point they either started singing the same tune or they shutup out of embarassment.
spike4881 wrote:Having said that, Panasonic has gone on record as saying the voltage will adjust itself dependant on viewing hours, which may translate to lessening of black levels in the long run. The question is how much? If it can be measured with a spyder, but will not suffer in a viewing environment, who cares?
I have not seen a single calibration report on a 2009 Panasonic plasma that does not have an increased MLL reading so it's not "may translate to lessening of black levels" it's will translate to lessening of black levels.
It will not suffer in a bright viewing enviroment because Panasonic's AR filter is very poor in direct light but in a dark room it will suck so it will suffer in a viewing enviroment.
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03-17-2010 12:47 PM
BillyBob99 wrote:
You don't need a meter to detect the MLL increase. If you turn off the lights and watch a movie like Dark Knight it will be obvious (even my wife who is not a tech geek noticed the difference). When I first got the TV my black bars were pretty dark...they did not match the black boarder but they were still pretty good. Now I have to zoom content to fill the screen because the bars are now grey and are very distracting (adjusting brightness from 0-100 or anywhere in between makes no difference to this). My measured contrast after the first 200hrs was 4000:1 (actual contrast not the dynamic BS) and has dropped to 1800:1 in the first 1000hrs on my V10. This gives a noticeable washed out look to dark scenes and makes the image very flat. I also have a PZ80 & a PX80 from last year and they both currently have a better black level than my V10 but they also have low hrs and are susposed to also be affected by this so they may suck too after some more use. Initially image retention was almost non existent even after 4-5 hrs of straight gaming but now I get IR in mere seconds. If I paid $1500 for this set instead of $3500 I wouldn't care but my buddy picked up a Samsung LN40B540 LCD for $800 that has black levels as good as what I'm currently seeing on my V10. If you can get a S1 for cheap fine but don't spend big bucks on the 2009 Panasonic plasma. Also the 58's and 65's start at a lower MLL so if they double or triple it's not as noticeable as the smaller Panasonic plasmas that start out at a higher MLL. BTW Panasonic has no intention of fixing this issue and is sweeping it under the rug like Toyota tried to so unless these TV's start blowing up and killing people Panasonic will never fix it unless their sales take a dive.
spike4881 wrote:
The avs forum is absolutely notorious for intolerance to anything but absolute perfection. "If it ain't Pioneer, it's garbage" seems to be a common theme there, and let's face it; if you're satisfied with your tv's performance, you will not post about it there.
Sorry buddy but you're wrong! A lot of us were posting calibration settings and calibration reports helping people get the best out of their TV's before any of this happened (I bet some of you are even using my settings) We wen't there complaining we were very happy about our TV's PQ until this started happening. There were many people like you saying we were too picky until the same BS happened to them at which point they either started singing the same tune or they shutup out of embarassment.
spike4881 wrote:
Having said that, Panasonic has gone on record as saying the voltage will adjust itself dependant on viewing hours, which may translate to lessening of black levels in the long run. The question is how much? If it can be measured with a spyder, but will not suffer in a viewing environment, who cares?
I have not seen a single calibration report on a 2009 Panasonic plasma that does not have an increased MLL reading so it's not "may translate to lessening of black levels" it's will translate to lessening of black levels.
It will not suffer in a bright viewing enviroment because Panasonic's AR filter is very poor in direct light but in a dark room it will suck so it will suffer in a viewing enviroment.
Thanks for the info. i for one can't bring myself to buy something that is defective and panasonic has no interest in fixing. i think it would be a great TV but can't understand where panasonic is coming from. and the 58 sammys have that **bleep** buzzing noise. i might have to go with LG.
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03-17-2010 06:21 PM
I have the Panasonic TH42PZ800u. I bought it in late 2007... I think.(I'm not going looking for the receipt right now.)
I have literally thousands of hours of use logged on this TV. It is the center of my home entertainment and used at least 4 to 8 hours a day for at least 2 years.( say 4000 to 6000 hours.) I have not spent the $300 to have it professionally calibrabrated, but I did run the home calibration blu-rays put out by HQV and DVE.
I've made a habbit of running the calibration disks a couple of times a year, and have only had to make one adjustment since purchasing the TV. I had to lower the brightness 1 notch. I believe it went from +16 to +15.(not near the TV for exactly where it is currently set.) I feel this is very good, if not excellent, for the level of use my TV receives. I admit I am not putting a scope on the TV to measure the contrast or brightness, but I cannot report any significant loss of black levels that my eye can detect. My blacks are just as inky as they should be, without losing corresponding detail.
If my TV is indeed losing black level, it will need to be a lot more dramatic a change to be clear enough to make any difference to my viewing. Any of my friends who also have HD TVs still prefer watching movies or sports at my place, because the picture is so good. I regularily get the envious comment, "Why doesn't my TV look like that?"
It could be I don't own one of the affected models. But if you want a real world example of what your panasonic will look like after 2 years of use, I can say I am very happy with what I have. My next TV will definately be another Panasonic.
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